Taking It Back: Kyle Motsinger on Self-Doubt, Songwriting, and His New Album

Richard Jones sits down with New York City-based singer-songwriter Kyle Motsinger on the release day of his third album, Take It Back. Kyle shares his journey from small-town Illinois to the stages of New York City, the Tori Amos moment that unlocked his songwriting, and how four years of creative struggle shaped an emotionally raw album about moving from self-doubt to self-belief. The pair also swap Broadway recommendations and Kyle gives a shoutout to Marie's Crisis Cafe, the iconic NYC sing-along piano bar where you can catch him performing.

The Bear World Podcast is the companion to Bear World Magazine, the world's only lifestyle magazine for the global bear community. Read more at bearworldmag.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome to another great episode of season two of the Bearworld Podcast, The Companion to BearworldMag.com, a magazine for bears, cubs, chubs, and chasers everywhere. Now in its 13th year, I'm your host, Richard Jones. This week we have a very special guest, the wonderful Kyle Motzinger, who has just released his third album. He's a New York City-based artist writing and performing alternative pop rock music with a theatrical flair. Buzz Music LA wrote that Kyle transcends the barriers of genre and style and praised his single Bad Years as a masterpiece that defies categorization. He has released two albums as well as many other uh singles. And the music video for his song Dark Shadows featured Catherine Lee Scott from the Gothic series itself. Um his live shows are described as engaging and personality driven with a mix of humor, vulnerability, and theatrical flair, according to cabaret scenes.org. Kyle, welcome to the Bearwolf Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Hey Richard, nice to see you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

And you I mean, I'd love reading that bio. I mean, I've seen you, I've seen your videos, and I'm like, I concur, first of all, concur with all of that. Good, um, which is great. And um, you gotta have a new album. You have a new album that dropped literally today.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

I know, I I can't believe it. It's been four years making this album, so I'm very excited and happy that it's out.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Fantastic, fantastic. Um, I've loved some of your your stuff. I love retro, I love the video for retro, uh, of course, the Dark Shadows inspired track, and you know, having one of the actresses from Dark Shadows in it was just wonderful. I mean, all those horror fans out there just love it. I know I did, and I'm not even a big horror fan, but I was like, this is amazing. So um I I've listened to some of the tracks uh uh in preview of the album because obviously it it dropped today, um, and love the sound, love the richness, love what you're putting out. I mean, um just wonderful. I mean, I'm excited about it. I know, but I what I want to do though is I'm gonna talk about the album uh later in the podcast because I want to get to know you a little bit before we kind of get to where you're at in your musical career, let's say, or your music career rather than musicals. Um, although I think that's in your past as well. So I don't I don't think I'm completely wrong. But um tell me, tell me, and I'm gonna leave it all up to you. Um, where are you from? Where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

I grew up in a small town uh in the middle of Illinois and uh kind of near Peoria, Illinois. And um, and yeah, it's probably like on the map, like halfway between Chicago and St. Louis.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Okie dokie. And what was that like? What was it like growing up there?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

It I mean, it is a it is a small town. Um, there were about 500 people in my town. Um, I could run around the outskirts of the town uh if I wanted to decide. And uh, you know, cornfields, um bean fields, you know, it was very country.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

And did was there much music in your life growing up? Do you come from a musical background?

SPEAKER_00 3:26

I do. My I mean I my family uh listened to a lot of like A's hair bands. Uh my mom and I would listen to um you know the contemporary adult contemporary radio probably. I remember listening to like Katie Lang and um and uh when Don't Speak by No Doubt came out, we were singing along to that. What else? Um oh Paula Cole, where have all the cowboys gone? I mean, so and then um and then when you know the pop kind of Brittany and sync, when all that sort of hit the scene, I was all about that. Um, but then I was also listening to um I started listening to musical theater. As you said, musicals are in my background. I was doing community theater and starting to discover that music. So I had a bunch of styles of music sort of jangling around my brain.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Fantastic. And you I mean you talked about the pop kind of early memories. Do you have uh when did you start playing the piano, for instance? Was that at that an early age?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Uh yeah, it was um I think my eighth grade year. Um, I was taking piano lessons, and uh my parents had gotten me a big electric keyboard that I was you know playing around. And even from an early age, I was sort of plunking out, you know, writing little tiny musical themes, um, maybe not full songs yet, but for sure I was sort of, you know, experimenting what what would happen when my fingers would would hit the keys.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

That's fantastic. So when did you kind of more formally get into kind of training and getting into kind of um like writing, you know, and and getting that kind of more skill-based part of it all?

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Well, uh when I was in high school, I uh there was a talent show, and I remember writing this um this very dramatic song called Ghosts from the Past. Uh, and and it was about um, you know, a person's past mistakes coming back to haunt them. And, you know, I don't know what past mistakes I had at that age that I was haunted by. But but I was, but you know, you know, of course, we know now, like, you know, little boy had lots of feelings, and um, and you know, of course, at the time I wasn't out, but it was very much um, I just was drawn to more dramatic kind of storytelling. Um, and I truthfully I hadn't written a lot in those days, so it wouldn't be until, you know, I would write a couple things probably throughout college. Um, I had it in my head that I wanted to write musical theater for a long time. Um, but I would like start things and never finish them because I'm not good at writing like the script of a musical. So I would sort of write a few songs and then it wouldn't go anywhere. It wouldn't be until um I think it was probably 2014 or 15 that I would really start writing songs about myself. And that's when I always say the floodgates opened, and I really started writing for real.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Wonderful. And at that moment, you said the floodgates opened. What kind of switched on? What was it that got you right? I can I can do this or I am gonna do it more.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Well, I always say, um, and people are probably sick of me talking about her, um, I'm a huge Tori Amos fan. And I when I heard her first album, Little Earthquakes, um, which I I didn't hear in the 90s, I hadn't heard it until um an ex of mine uh introduced me to all of her music. And we would listen to a different Tory album like every night until we got through all the albums, and we would discuss it and talk about it. And something, uh some sort of light switched on, and I was like, you know, she talks about, especially in those early albums, she really sort of deals with what she's going through. And I hadn't really dealt with, you know, my past uh at that time I did have a few ghosts from the past. Uh and I so I wanted to, you know, I wanted to deal with uh me. And the best way I could do that was to write songs about how I was feeling and what I was going through. And um, you know, I was sort of just starting to scratch the surface about you know anxiety and things like that that I sort of was feeling like I was having to deal with. Um and so yeah, it really is Tori Amas that sort of flipped the light switch on.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Fantastic. Um, and were you performing at this time?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Um I I I mean, I had been performing, you know, other people's music, but it was I think 2014 or 2015, probably 15. I did a show of my original music at um upstairs at the duplex when that was a cabaret. Um, I did an entire night of my music. At that point, I had you know uh broken up with that ex and I had been writing furiously. Um and um and I had enough songs to do a little show and um the feeling of performing in front of that crowd and and uh feeling sort of like a rock star at the piano. Uh it was like, well, this is what I meant to be doing, like not necessarily acting right now. I want to pursue being a singer-songwriter for better or for worse. That was what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Well, I mean, that's amazing. But you had, if I'm right, you had performed in theater before that moment, though.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, yes. So, yes, I I had done years in theater. I had done this little off-Broadway children's musical called Fancy Nancy when I moved here. Um, and you know, for a while, I I probably had I not started really writing seriously, I probably would have kept pursuing uh theater and and uh it it made it it might have gone well. Um things seem to have been starting to go well. Um, but I just sort of felt like, and look, you know, I'm I'm a ginger. Back then I had you know hair on top, no beard, but I was had a very specific look, still do. Um and I sort of felt like, you know, if I write my music, I know that I'm right for the role of me. Um so I don't have to worry about being cast as a specific role. I can just write for myself and kind of create my own art.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Fantastic. I love that. And is there a time? So you were writing your own music and performing it. Was there a time, was there a distance before you started recording it, or was it kind of at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Um, there was a little time before I started recording it. I think I did that concert that I was talking about, um, and then I think probably that next year we started recording. Um I realized that I I had a um a friend who uh started recording with me, and and so it all kind of started to fall into place um eventually there.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Wonderful. What was your what was your first record that you recorded? Can you remember? Or first song?

SPEAKER_00 11:10

I we probably started at the top, which was uh Midwest Boy, and that was the what would be the first single of that first album. Um, so yeah, we probably started with that and then kind of worked our way through.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Fantastic. Um so I mean, the journey that you've had then, because you've you've recorded a lot. I mean, you've got two albums, uh multiple singles, I think. I don't I don't know whether they're all on all the albums, but I, you know, when you look at your Spotify, you've got quite a lot a lot of work there, which is which is wonderful. Um what what's brought you to this point that you're ready for another album? Like what's been going on to bring you to this kind of right, I have another album to release.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Well, this album was written very much um, you know, after my second album, the second album came out in 2020. Um, there wasn't much I could do um to really promote it outside of you know social media. Um and you know, I sort of felt a frustration of I don't know that people really listened to the second album as much as I wanted them to. You know, I I have people that still that I know in real life that I feel like don't even know that I'm a singer-songwriter just because you know it's really hard to see social media that I always go on about the algorithms and everything. Um so I I I was feeling very frustrated after that second album, and I was doubting myself um whether or not, okay, maybe I'm just not good at this, you know. Um and I'm always a fan of the whole, you know, uh saying write what you know. Um and I didn't really know what else to write about at the time. Then well, I want to write about my frustrations, my self-doubt. Um, and then and also what was going on with the world at the time and what is sadly still going on with the world and the country. Um and so that that suddenly it was like, okay, this is what this album is going to be. It's gonna be about um my journey from self-doubt to confidence. And, you know, I always sort of reason it, you know, if I'm dealing with something, if I'm going through something, I know I can't be the only person that's going through this. So I thought, you know, maybe this is something people want to talk about. Great, and we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah, great. I mean, you know, it's it's out today, um, which uh when this podcast first comes out will be May the 15th, but um, so that's when uh when the track comes out. Um I I you put in the press release that I don't know whether you wrote this or somebody else did, but it that it's an emotionally raw and empowering alternative album. Um explain that for us, for me, for the listeners. What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Well, when I say emotionally raw, I just mean that I'm really kind of being very honest and open about my feelings. That means the good and the bad. You know, this down, down, down that came out a couple years ago is on the album, and that is very much it is the lowest of low. Um and some people aren't willing to talk about when they're when they're down like that. Um, and again, I feel like people probably need to hear that they're not alone in in feeling that way sometimes. And so a lot of um, you know, I think a lot of people with imposter syndrome and um, you know, there's a song called The Imposter. So uh there's a song called Sabotage, and I think a lot of people feel like they self-sabotage themselves sometimes. I have for sure. Um and so that's what I mean by raw and you know, emotional. Um and uh yeah, would I have that answered?

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Yeah, I mean, what I mean is that why you think it's alternative? Because it's looking at like your emotional.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Oh well, yeah, well, what when I say alternative, I mean um the style the style of of the genre of music. Um to me, it's to me, alternative is just a little bit off the beaten path, uh, musically, sonically. Um it has more of a what I think of as like a 90s alt rock feel than the last album, which was a little more pop. Um, this feels a little bit more like sort of alt rock to me.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Great, great. Um, I know so does that mean every track is autobiographical on the album?

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Um not yes and no. Um, everything is definitely coming from me. Um, but there are songs on the album that are about um everyone, the the the collective, you know, especi especially everyone in the country or everyone in the world that's dealing with stuff. You know, the first single was Bad Years, and that is very much um it's coming from my perspective because I'm the one talking about it, but it I'm talking about um what we're all going through collectively, unfortunately, still after several years. Um and a song like Family is also about how I perceive humanity and how we should be treating each other. Um so yes, you know, everything is sort of from my perspective. Some songs are directly about me, like sabotage and imposter and all those um things. But there's also um I think it's important to realize for everybody that the story that you're living is is happening concurrently with everyone else's lives and stories. We're all one big family, like the song.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

I love that. And you you mentioned earlier that you kind of uh uh went from low confidence to being much more confident at this point of the album, which I think is a great journey. What do you think changed or what helped you grow into that confidence?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

I think you just have to go through it, you have to go through the the self-doubt and and just get there. And you know, I think eventually with time healing things, you you realize that maybe some of the things that really bugged you or or made you doubt um just don't really matter as much. And you know, it would be great if every time something um upsetting happens that you can have the forethought to be like, oh, well, this isn't gonna matter in a couple years. And I know some people are good at that. Um, but I think sometimes I have to I have to go through um, yeah, I had a friend the other day said, like, I just need to be grumpy for a few minutes. Yeah and so I feel like you know sometimes you just have to go through those emotions, um, grumpy or depressed or you know, or doubting of yourself. You have to just go through that to get out to the other side.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Fantastic. So it which is is the track in a kind of linear are the tracks in a linear order then from kind of that that show your growth. So if you listen to track one and then by the end of the album it's you're you've changed. Does that is that a fair assessment of the of the plot of the album?

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Yeah, I think so. Um when you get to the last song, it's the title track, Take It Back. Um, it it may sound sonically like a sad ballad, and it maybe starts that way, but um I think there's a quiet resolve at the end of the song of you know, I'm gonna take my power back. Um and it's not like a loud, like, you know, uh, you know, don't rain on my parade type, you know, declaration. It's just a nice like, you know, I'm gonna let this go and I'm gonna trust that I'm good enough. Um and I think that can be just as powerful as a big loud, you know, declaration.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

For sure. For sure. Which you I mean, you just need a good book writer and you let you you may have your soundtrack to your musical.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Look, if anyone is out there, let me know if you hear something in this.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

I mean, some of the greatest some of the greatest composers never wrote their own book, you know, they always have to get get somebody else to do it. So, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Oh, yeah, and the majority of them don't, yeah. So I I yes, I'm great at writing dialogue, but just bet at the structure of a story.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah, yeah, great. It's it's mad because it's kind of like a jukebox musical of your own music kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Look, Alanis Morissette did it with Jack of the Little Pill. So well, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

That's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm thinking. Um, I mean, is it too soon to ask what's next? I mean, the album came out today, but uh is it too soon to say what's next for you?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

I don't know to be honest. There are things that I um I feel like this album is sort of the the completing album of a trilogy. The first three albums really, you know, even though they're all sort of different, I feel like um they're all about me sort of figuring out who I am and trying to grow and you know go through things. And I feel like at the end of this album, we are sort of at a button for now of, you know, I years down the road, I may want to talk more about things that I'm going through, and I always will. Um, but I do feel like, you know, I wonder if there's if there's not something uh lighter to talk about uh coming ahead. Um uh I, you know, a lot of my contemporary um gay singers, songwriters or queer musicians are talking about, you know, love, sex, and whatnot. And um, you know, and I touch on it a little bit um in in my music, and one of the songs is about me this album is about maybe being ready to eat again. Um so I don't know. I I I have things I might want to talk about, just don't know when I'm gonna. Do that.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Maybe maybe you had a chance to take a break. I know you you said you you I think I'm right in saying it. You've been working on the album for four years. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Yeah, yeah, four years. And it's it's been a lot of money. Um, as an indie singer songwriter, it's just so expensive to make your own music without the help of a a label. I think even if you have a label, you are expected to flip most of that money anyway. So it's just uh it's a lot of money. And I don't know that I am um I think I want to live a little life before I do like a full album. That doesn't mean I won't do like a single here and there, because I I do that between each of my albums. I as you said I had standalone singles that were just sort of uh meant to be sort of in between songs, and there I think there'll be some of those for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Fantastic. Fantastic. And I I I was reading on the press list, you work with a hell of a lot of musicians you put on on the which is great. I mean, that that's that's great to see that it wasn't all kind of done on a computer, you know, to read that, especially in the in our moment of you know, the digital world taking over art or trying to, that that's quite refreshing.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

I don't think you can replace real musicians um easily. I mean, uh, there are some great samples and great, you know, stuff you can do. Um, I certainly like synthesizers, but I also like playing the synthesizers or having someone play them. I had someone synthesizers on a couple tracks just because I wanted them to do something that was more than what I could do. Um, you know, I hired, you know, I've got real drums for the most part on the on the album. There's one song that has electronic drums, and there's a couple of songs that have real drums and like an electronic kick drum or something. But I, you know, my second album was a little more electronic in parts, but even that I had people, you know, I there's just nothing like, and I had somebody, a fellow singer songwriter, be like, Why do you hire live string players? You could have just done that on a synthesizer. And I said, Well, sure, but there's something about a real musician and the way uh a bow comes off of, you know, uh, I don't know, I don't play strings, so like I'm probably talking about this wrong, but but the way that you play that is I just you can't really replicate easily on on synthesizers. I mean they've gotten really good and they've gotten good um, you know, on different programs, and people have you know samples of you know symphonies, but um I just you know, and for better or for worse, because it was very expensive to hire all those last musicians.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Well, I think you know, in my limited kind of expertise, I I I I remember getting to an age of realizing there's all this pop music I love and it's full of orchestras, it's full of strings or something, and you're like the big when you very first you know, and you're much younger and you don't maybe know well, you may have known being a musical, but but I didn't realize, and then you you you see later on or you understand later on that that track, that kind of big pop hit from the 80s, is still full of like half a dozen violin players, and you're and I remember that blowing my mind going, Hold on a minute, like it's half classical music, you know. Um but it but I think I think that's what I'm hearing from your new album is that richness that I really enjoy in that kind of I mean I I you know my I was born in the 70s, so my pop listening ear is from the 80s, and I love, I mean, my big passion is pet shop boys, and that's kind of which is synth, which is mad, but I also love classical music, and then I love pop that brings in a lot of kind of classical instruments. So I'm I I you know I'm I I'm gonna be listening to it much fuller now that it's fully out from today. Um, so thank you for that. Um, and honestly, thank you for employing musicians and employing artists. You know, let's make sure we encourage more people to keep doing that. I um I'm really passionate about it myself.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

And there, and there's so and and even if you're someone out there who is making music in your bedroom, you know, um there are resources out there to hire musicians online. Not everybody on this album was in a studio with me. Some people I I sent them the track and they added their their stuff to it. There's there's a um, I'm gonna shout out the website soundbetter.com. And that's a that's just one of the resources where you can hire live musicians. The the brass player on the opening song, Let's Try This Again, um, is just somebody I can't even remember where he's from, but he um was able to um just send over all of his brass you know lines and and then we mixed it on our end. But um we did that for synthesizers, we did that for um, I did that, I had um a string session. So most of the strings on the album are arranged by Mark Hartman and uh we did in a studio, but the the final song, um Take It Back, um that was one that I I found uh a great player on um on Sound Better Um by the name of uh Yoed Near. I was looking at the I have the CD here. Oh, by the way, I should I should hog this at some point.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Please we'll we'll we'll make sure people know where to come at the end. Don't worry.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Um yeah, so I so I hired somebody to just do I I asked him to do like one cello line on the song. He ended up giving me a cello trio that sounded stunning. Um and I always love what I love and what I would encourage um other songwriters to do is um let go enough to let um another musician see what they can add to your song without necessarily being super in control. If you don't like it, you can always throw it out. And I know that that's costly, but um, you can also guide them a little bit and say, This is kind of what I'm feeling. Um, but it's really magical when you have like your guitar player. Um, you say, I want it to feel like either this song or this feeling. You know, some guitar players are great if you just say that like I want the guitar to sound angry, and then they'll interpret that um the way they want to, you know. So I I think some really magical stuff can happen when you bring in live musicians.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Love it, love it. I well, well done. Honestly, I I I'm really excited to listen fully. I wish you the best with this new album. Um, I'm just glad you're doing more again because again, I can't believe it was five years since the last one. Was that when was retro on that last album? Or was it was retro one of the in-between songs?

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Retro was one of the in-betweens.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Okay, okay, because I re that's when I really remember loved the video, loved your whole Mary Tyler Moore inspiration. I love all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Um that that that song is like uh that song is doing great on Spotify. Like, I I get little emails from Spotify saying your most string song, uh most uh streamed song is uh retro right now. So people are loving it still.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Well, I had a good listen again this week because I was like, Oh, let me listen to that again. It's one of my faves. So that that's that's me. Um, I had extra questions. I was just gonna quickly uh we we're kind of doing great for time, but I was gonna ask you about um you what you work at Marie's Crisis, is yes, I do, which is fun. So do what is anything you wanted to shout out about Marie's Crisis? Please feel free to tell tell everybody.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Yeah, so Marie's Crisis, if you have heard, is um the world's only sing-along show tunes bar um that is really that is acoustic without microphone phones, and it really is sort of the feeling of you're around the piano, like as if you're in somebody's apartment and you're you're singing Oklahoma or Phantom of the Opera or Le Miserab. Um and uh it's a place you can find me, and um, it's you know, sort of my, you know, I don't I don't really want to call it a survival job because it's more than survival. It's I really love working there, and I love and what I get to do there is I get to I get to use my um BFA musical theater degree there, uh and I get to sing musical theater songs. And yeah, and I, you know, like yesterday I got to sing two solos for the room, and you know, I sang Why Good Why from Miss Saigon and Fabulous, uh, and they're and they're off from A New Brain, which is a show I love. Um, so it gets they kind of you know scratch that itch, that musical theater itch.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Wonderful. I tell you, and they the you're not overcharged for drinks there either. I have to say, if you're looking for a great drink and a great listen, it is I concur that it's fantastic. Just quickly while I've got you, um, any great shows on Broadway at the minute? Anything that you could recommend?

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Uh I loved The Lost Boys. I saw it um a few weeks ago. I actually didn't previews, um, so I think it's a little it's even better than when I saw it because I know they made some changes, but um, it's got it got fairly good reviews. It sort of broke the vampire musical curse. Um and you know, if you know my song Dark Shadows, you know I do love vampires that sing. Um and so I loved that. Um, this season you have to see ragtime. It is an important show um for the times. Yeah. Um and there are moments in the show that are um hard to watch because you think, oh wow, this is happening again. Um or has always been happening. Um and uh I loved oh I'm gonna get in trouble. Um I loved chess. Um for the most part. I did not like the new book. I'm sorry. Oh I'm just gonna say it, I didn't like it. Um, I thought it it made light of uh what I think is it should be a more serious show. Um, you know, when the the when the narrator says, Welcome to our Cold War musical in the first few minutes. I I just groaned and and there's an RFK brainworm joke in there, and I don't know. I'm sure I know some people love it, and I just um but go see it for the music because that score is incredible, that cast is amazing. Um vocally and and acting wise, what you're doing on that stage is incredible. Go see it for that. Um, what else? Um, I mean, just go to Broadway um if you can. Um if you're if you're not in New York, um see a touring production. There's some great tours going on in the country, um, going around other countries, um, go to the West End, um, see a tour in the UK. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Go see I love it. I agree. I agree, I really do. Um, I was lucky enough to see Ragtime. Um, in the in the fact that this podcast is recorded before it's broadcast. When we recorded it, I'm going to see Lost Boys tomorrow night. When this first comes out, I will have seen it two nights ago, but I won't, but as I haven't technically seen it, I can't talk about it. So I'm excited for that. Um we we uh you know me and John, we love our horror as well. So um thing and again, it's great to hear good um good reviews and get so many Tony nominations. So we're we're excited for that. Um but Kyle, thank you so much for being on the podcast, being with us here at the Bear Well Podcast. Um, Kyle's new album, Take It Back, will be available on Apple Music, Spotify, and all digital platforms from May the 15th. That's today when you first hear this podcast. And I'll be back soon with another episode. Please give us a review and click like and subscribe. And I'll see you all soon. Take care. Thanks, Mr.